So, let’s delve even deeper into the world of jazz musicians and find out if we can truly be confident of a brighter tomorrow for The Arts.

1. Why did you choose to become a jazz musician and how many years has this been your chosen path? 

Zoe - I was 21 years old. My father was a jazz trumpeter and arranger. I grew up with jazz. My 21st birthday present was a place on Fionna Duncan’s jazz vocal workshop as part of the Glasgow Jazz Festival. Everything changed after that. I cried when I came home. I found a place where I could sound like me! I’ve been on this crazy road for 20 years since.

Natasha - One of my passions is improvisation, the powerful pull towards body, mind and emotion. Initially, this led me to theatre and its improvisational element - collaborative exploration and discovery. I was drawn to Keith Johnstone, Mike Leigh & Ken Loach and their approach to devising and creating. I was intrigued, still am, like many, by authentic identity; exploration through thought / breath / reaction / relationship. But also, I was completely taken with the fun, often mischievous, child-like quality improvisation enables us to access (and the freedom in this)!

I made a decision in 2014 to leave the theatre world in order to concentrate on learning and growing further as a musician. I wanted to challenge myself, become more musically literate, write more songs. I have always been drawn to improvisation within jazz music and the song writing process. As an artist, I already knew collaborating and working with jazz musicians was and is where the accelerated growth is, for me, and being around jazz musicians informed me to such a great extent. From 2016, when I completed my Masters, I wanted to work as much as I could in this niche, yet dense world… The learning never stops - that’s very exciting!

2. What do you love about your work and how does it positively contribute to your own life as well as the life of others? 

Natasha - I love how music connects people socially and individually. The live, intimate experience resonates strongly and results in a shared communal experience - This is powerful and profound. Everyone together in real time exploring the human condition, collectively.

I also really love meeting and playing a gig with someone I only met 5 minutes ago! It’s a positive all round. Being able to lead a project you’ve created or curated, to unite a room – this is all very life affirming stuff. To discuss/share the things I choose to, and to read a room, all these things are very interesting, rewarding and empowering.

Zoe - I love words, I love a story and I love writing lyrics and singing them. Being a day dreamer is my place of safety. I can forget about the outside world and drift off. This is what I do when song writing and composing. When others get a buzz out of it too, then that’s the biggest high ever.

3. How are you finding work opportunities at present and do you feel post-Covid that things are back to normal, better or worse? Why? 

Zoe - Harder. Less opportunities to perform, less venues, fewer promoters, smaller audiences. So many sadly had to shut up shop during Covid and didn’t survive. Certainly, more challenging, but I’m a tough cookie. I am absolutely relentless. I do not give up easily.

Natasha - I think things are starting to get better, because people need people. There is good and bad though. I feel the jazz gigs and their audiences are getting fewer. Post-Covid we’ve embraced the experience of being together and the power in this. But we are in the midst of a cultural highjack, aren’t we? Arts/cultural funding is being cut significantly everywhere, including grass roots venues, and with the cost of living increasing and of course the damage of Brexit, it’s all impacting.

The overarching Capitalist consumer culture is trying its darndest to affect the demise of the space in between our living place and our work places – the entertainment/congregational spaces are diminishing. So, we can all stay at home on our devices and spend more money - without ever leaving our homes. It’s a strange and a scary sight to behold, certainly for a child of the 80s! 

4. What’s the biggest stress factor currently in your work? 

Zoe - Finances. Although money is most certainly not what it’s about for me. I have a balancing act to make ends meet – balancing paying the mortgage and doing what I love. It feels like plate spinning at times which impacts on time management, motivation and creativity.

Natasha - Social Media. I struggle with this and the amount of platforms you need to be on as an artist, and freelancing, posting regularly. I wish to be present – social media is a black hole. It’s not my reality and I feel it doesn’t always perpetuate the good or the real stuff. It’s important, in our family, my kids don’t always see me on a device. I’m very conscious of what we’re endorsing at home. 

The balance has shifted with less emphasis on creation and performance and more time needed for marketing, admin & connecting. It’s a tough gig. So, time management for all these required aspects is stretched and stressful. And we don’t always earn enough to enlist admin help. At the moment I’m juggling gigs, teaching and new projects with parenthood, it’s challenging.

5. Would you say working in the jazz industry encourages your confidence and self-belief or challenges it and why? 

Zoe - Both I suppose. I like the challenge but I am very fortunate in that my mental health is stable, I have an amazing supportive network of colleagues, family and friends. I’ve built a very thick skin over the years. Jazz isn’t everyone’s cup of tea so there are some barriers to connect to a wider audience. I feel it is important to make it accessible, present it in a way where everyone is included. The audience feel a part of the concert or the listener feels a part of the recording. Takes a bit of self-belief to execute that though.

Natasha - In my experience it challenges your self-belief. I think unconscious bias is still prevalent to a huge extent. I’m a female, white, working-class singer! I studied in Liverpool and later on in Bath Spa after being expelled from school – so I’m an anomaly. My research for my Masters on contemporary female jazz vocalists was illuminating. The jazz singers I was always in love with had no formal training, often sang at church or in church choirs, a few had piano lessons. But their terrific skill was instinct, intuition, incredible natural musical facility and life experience. You know who I mean, you can hear it the second they communicate. Honing their craft, in my opinion, was and is way more valid than the Eurocentric degree route – yet there is a preference for this route, perhaps not always conscious, there is a strong bias if you’re not ticking the ‘idealised’ boxes. Often you don’t get an acknowledgement to your email, let alone a response, and you’ve sent an impeccable review by an esteemed industry writer. Yeah, the gate keeping is not good for the soul.

6. How important do you think it is for musicians to support each other and why? 

Zoe - ITS PARAMOUNT!!!!! There is enough stacked against us. As a community we work better together. Sharing each other’s social media posts, attending each other’s concerts, buying each other’s music and just being a supportive listening ear to one another when the going gets rough. It will breed empowerment and confidence within us. This is key to the longevity of writing, recording and performing live music.

Natasha - Incredibly important. Community is important, healthy and a necessary counter point for the tough experiences. Support with visibility makes a huge difference. Villages are stronger together.

7. Tell me one change you’d like to see to make the music industry a better place. 

Zoe - The government to be more supportive and to contribute more financially to its survival. Stop cutting the funding and encourage the musical growth. For both emerging and established artists.

Natasha - Be polite. Be kind. Venues support your artists with robust, regular marketing. Putting in the effort and hours to sell tickets, not just one Insta post and a couple of likes (without a share). It has to be a collaborative effort.

For Industry to respond to your emails.

For industry to respond appropriately/intelligently to your emails!

8. Would you ever make the decision to pursue an alternative career in life? 

Natasha – No, impossible. I’m useless at anything else. To perhaps widen the net in terms of genre, might be wise, if you keep coming up against the same constraints time and time again.  But, to quit – never!

Zoe - Yes and no. My part-time job has nothing to do with the music industry but I love it and I’m just as passionate about it. It actually inspires my music in many ways. Music will always be in my life and will always come first. I will never retire from music.

9. Do you feel respected as a musician? 

Zoe - Pretty much, yes. Still some hurdles to jump. Being a female artist in a very male dominated industry certainly has its challenges. Who I choose to work with and associate myself with musically and professionally, we definitely have respect for each other.

Natasha - Often, but no, not all the time. Again, it’s not uncommon to encounter the overarching assumption there is a lack of knowledge with singers (don’t say too much girls)! Just recently I was on a gig with formidable jazz musicians. One of whom wouldn’t give me eye contact at all. I was band leading and there was great banter upon the stand with other band members, many ‘in’ jokes yet avoidant eyes (sigh). And then you work with someone marvellously supportive and the difference is, wow! Good job I’m comfortable in my own skin – because if one of my students ever experienced this type of behaviour it might totally put them off for good!

10. What does a brighter tomorrow look like for you? 

Zoe - For the music industry to be supported. For artists to be able to create their music, discover new sounds, keep the flame alive and let the adventure continue.

Natasha - Less polarized thinking/attitudes and more openness and real connection. Presence. Less device addiction.

Zoe and bassist husband Andy are soon to release their next “Living In Shadows” project. All their own original compositions in an eight-track album of jazz, prog-rock and alt-pop. It’s a mother ship ready to set sail and they are buzzing about it! 

Natasha is launching a new “untitled” project on 28th July. She begins recording later in the summer as well as releasing a ‘live’ gig recording of her Ellington project at Crazy Coqs, London in the Autumn.

With huge thanks to jazz musicians Tori Freestone, Alcyona Mick, Migdalia van der Hoven, Terence Collie, Alex Steele, Edison Herbert, Zoe Gilby and Natasha Seale for contributing to this four-part series and providing an enlightening insight into the world of jazz musicians – the highs, the lows, the challenges, the rewards. It is clear there is much work to be done to ensure the jazz industry can survive and to enable musicians to cope in an industry of relentless plate-spinning, financial worry, fewer opportunities, unconscious bias and a lack of funding and respect. 

However, it is reassuring and encouraging to reach out to fellow musicians, to open up a conversation, to make connections, to feel we are not alone and to support each other. As expressed throughout this series – Jazz is an art form of self-expression and collective creativity, a shared experience which builds a connection with others in a place of safety, away from the strains of everyday life. It’s about trusting others, kindness, compassion, empathy, supporting those around you. This is why musicians do what they do and this is why I have been on a mission to celebrate the work of musicians and all those working in The Arts for the past year with my ‘BRIGHTER TOMORROW’ project. I couldn’t be more proud of this wonderful community and I have total respect for all they do – keeping the flame alive and allowing the adventure to continue.

As a community we work better together. Collectively amplifying our voices, we can advocate for fair treatment as well as breeding empowerment and confidence within us. So, let’s all support each other with mutual respect and please do celebrate and pay tribute to all who are contributing to our brighter tomorrow for The Arts and please share your own music projects, new music, video links, gig listings, photographs, news etc on socials using the hashtag #brightertomorrowforthearts

Together we are making the world a better place.

To find out more about Natasha Seale click here:

To find out more about Zoe Gilby click here:

Cover Photos by Ross Powell and Tatiana Gorilovsky